Is Podcasting Sexist? The Facts Say Yes…
Author: Sangeeta Pillai
Women Love Podcasts
Women are passionate about podcasting. Women make time for podcasts among their busy schedules, fitting them into their busy lives and even sometimes listening while doing household chores.
I should know. South Asian women write to me almost every week, telling me how my Masala Podcast has changed their lives. They say my podcast makes them feel less alone. They tell me that it gives them the courage to make tough choices. So much so, that a Masala Podcast fan who asked to meet me in person when I was travelling, told me over coffee that my podcast had given her the courage to leave an abusive marriage. So yes, women have an emotional connection with their favourite podcasts, perhaps more so than male podcast listeners. Podcasts have a fundamental place in the lives of many, from something to listen to during mundane chores to somewhere they go to draw courage in order to make massive life choices.
It’s not just me saying this. Let’s look at some numbers.
WOMEN LISTEN TO & LOVE PODCASTS
In the UK, 42% women are avid monthly podcast listeners. In the US, 46% of the monthly podcast audience are women. What’s more, women love podcasts created by other women. A stunning 90% of female monthly podcast listeners listen to podcast content created by other women. Nearly half of these listeners said they had a preference for brands that advertise on podcasts hosted by women. These sorts of numbers should make brands advertising to women rush to sponsor and advertise on women-led podcasts.
Sadly, that’s not happening. Read on to understand why…
(Sources: Edison UK Podcasters Consumer Report 2024 & Edison Podcast Metrics US Q2022)
HOW MANY WOMEN ARE PODCASTERS?
So despite women podcasters being massive consumers & fans of podcasts, they aren’t really creating a lot of podcasts. Among weekly podcast listeners who said they have ever created a podcast: only 30% identified as a woman. (Source: Edison Podcast Metrics US Q2022)
HOW ARE WOMEN’S PODCASTS DOING?
To a casual observer looking into the “world’s best podcasts” it would seem women aren’t anywhere near the top in the podcasting world. The big bucks in podcasting are being made by men. The big shows are usually led by men. The big download numbers seem to belong mostly to men.
And what does that translate into? Without the big numbers, podcast advertisers don’t really see the value of podcasts led by women and therefore don’t invest in them.
WHY ARE TOP 10 PODCAST LISTS FULL OF MEN?
I looked at the “Top Podcasts” lists in the UK, US, Australia and Canada and have written out the top 3 in each country. Be warned: it makes thoroughly depressing reading.
UNITED KINGDOM
The Joe Rogan Experience
The Diary Of A CEO
Sh**ged Married Annoyed
As we know, Rosie Ramsay is one half of the Sh**ged Married Annoyed pod team. So how we do read that: a women get “half a top 3 slot” in the UK?
(Source: Edison Research. Full list: https://www.edisonresearch.com/the-top-25-podcasts-in-the-uk-for-q1-2024/)
UNITED STATES
The Joe Rogan Experience
Crime Junkie
The Daily
Women are not in the top 3 but it’s good to see “Call Her Daddy” come in at No.9, which is also the most-listened to podcast by women. Alex Cooper is the highest paid woman podcaster in the world, who signed a $60 million deal with Spotify and recently left Spotify for a multiyear deal with SiriusXM worth up to $125 million.
(Source: Edison Research. Full list: https://www.edisonresearch.com/the-top-50-podcasts-in-the-u-s-for-q1-2024/)
AUSTRALIA
Hamish & Andy
ABC News Top Stories
Casefile True Crime
Again women are not in the top 3, but it’’s heartening to see the women-led podcasting company Mamma Mia come in at No. 4 with “Mamamia Out Loud”.
(Source: https://tritonrankers.com/ Full list: https://tritonrankers.com/rankers/au/podcasts/2024/7)
CANADA
Dateline NBC
SmartLess
Crime Junkie
*NOTE: I've just been told that Crime Junkie which appears in the No. 3 slot is created and hosted by Ashley Flowers - Founder & CEO of Audiochuck. Go women in podcasting! (9.16.24)
No women podcasters anywhere in the top slots in Canada but The Mel Robbins Podcast at No. 11 created by SiriusXM Podcast Network was the only woman hosted show that I saw on this list.
(Source: https://tritonrankers.com/ Full list: https://tritonrankers.com/rankers/ca/podcasts/2024/7)
INDIA
Sudipta Bhawmik - The Stories of Mahabharata
Raj Shamani - Figuring Out with Raj Shamani
Pretkotha (Bengali Horror Podcast)
I thought I’d also look at India, considering that “India is currently the third-largest market for podcast listeners” but according to this report only 12% of Indians actually listen to them. These pods are taken from the Spotify list on Chartable.
Sadly I didn’t see any Indian women on this list at all – literally none.
Source: https://www.hindustantimes.com/ Full list: https://chartable.com/charts/spotify/india-top-podcasts
WHAT’S THE CONCLUSION?
Just looking at the top podcasts list from the UK, US, Australia, Canada and India is horrifying, the lack of women and the lack of any diversity is shocking.
I didn’t see ANY top pods led by women of colour – I also didn’t see many podcasts by men of colour in these top pods lists.
I didn’t see ANY diverse podcasters in any of these lists – except obviously India where the top pods are created by Indian men. No surprises there.
I could see maybe about one or two women podcasters (if any) in a list of 25-30 top pods in each country.
I didn’t see any indie podcasters on any of these lists – not even one! What does that tell us about the state of the podcasting industry? It looks like we’re being taken over by large media companies & production companies.
SO, SHOULD WOMEN PODCASTERS GIVE UP?
I don’t know about you, but I’m sick of seeing middle-aged white men leading the podcasting world. I’m sick of not seeing women (and particularly women of colour) featured in any top lists or making any money (with the exception of Alex Cooper who, let’s face it, is a young white American woman). So where does that leave a podcaster like me: older, female, South Asian? If I go by all the figures and data above, I should just give up, right?
Hell no.
I’ve come too far and created a podcast so powerful that it not only wins awards and goes on giant billboards around the world – but it dramatically changes the lives of women. It’s more than just my podcast though. I genuinely think podcasting, more than any other medium, has the power to positively change the lives of women. Because women really listen to podcasts, women connect with podcasts and women relate to podcasts in a unique way.
Women use podcasts differently: to grow, to get emotional support, to inspire themselves, to gain knowledge – and ultimately to transform their lives. So I’m not going anywhere yet. And neither should other women podcasters.
Remember, this patriarchal world did not just hand women any rights (whether it was the right to vote or the right to make choices around our bodies). We had to fight for every right we now have. It took the women’s movement decades of collectively protesting and campaigning before women got basic rights. I think we need the same in women’s podcasting. There is immense power in women gathering together. I do think women podcasters need to join forces, share knowledge, pool resources and generally start advocating for ourselves.
We need to level out this hugely unequal and patriarchal podcasting playing field. We need to get up there in these top-pods lists. We need more visibility. We need more money. We’ve done enough of just waiting for the podcasting world to notice the power of women podcasters. I think it’s time for women podcasters need to act as a collective? Who’s with me?
Let’s take on this Podcasting Patriarchy!
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Sangeeta Pillai - A feminist activist and changemaker, as well as the creator of the multi-award-winning Masala Podcast - as part of her South Asian feminist network Soul Sutras.
Masala Podcast is all about cultural taboos: from sex, sexuality, periods, porn, mental health, menopause and much more. It has won 6 British Podcast Awards, 1 Audio Production Award & the Spotify SoundUp 2018 award. Most recently, Sangeeta and Masala Podcast were on giant billboards in New York, London, Dublin, Cardiff & Glasgow.
Sangeeta is recognised as a leading voice for South Asian feminism globally. She has been featured extensively in the press from BBC Radio, Guardian, Metro, Cosmopolitan, Stylist, Evening Standard, Huffington Post to Deccan Herald India.
Sangeeta is a regular speaker at podcasting industry conferences like The Podcast Show as well as being the Keynote Speaker at Birmingham Podcast Festival. She is a regular judge at innumerable podcast awards. As well as being a Governor at The Podcast Academy.
She is also a Female Empowerment and DE&I Speaker, having spoken at WOW Festival, Shameless Festival, Primadonna Festival and has also been on innumerable panels and podcasts.