Podcast 360 Episode 12: Amy Choi and Arielle Nissenblatt
Podcast 360 Episode 12: Amy Choi (The Mash-Up Americans) and Arielle Nissenblatt (EarBuds Podcast Collective)
Host: Amy Choi
Amy Choi: I’m Amy Choi, Co-Founder and Editorial Director of the Mashable Americans. On last week's episode, I was interviewed by Eric Newsome, Co-Founder of Magnificent Noise. So be sure to check out that episode. If you haven't yet already.
And who's in the hot seat as today's guests?
Arielle Nissenblatt: My name is Arielle Nissenblatt. I am on the community team at Descript. And I'm the Founder of Earbuds Podcast Collective, which is a podcast recommendation newsletter.
Before we dig in, we ask our guests to lay out two truths and a lie, our host to guests, which is the lie. We'll find out the answer together at the end of the conversation. But our hosts will have an opportunity to change their answer based on what they learn from our guest. Or they can stick with their first intuition.
Amy Choi: Here we go. Arielle, thank you so much for joining Podcast 360 as my guest. It's great to have you - Let’s get right into it. We start every episode of Podcast 360 with a round of two truths and a Lie. Are you ready?
Arielle Nissenblatt: I am very excited for this!
Amy Choi: Oh, let's go.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Okay. My first potential truth or lie is that when I was nine years old, I received a deep fryer for my birthday. I asked for it from my grandma. She said yes. Number two, I actually trained as a welder. After hearing about a shortage of women welders from a podcast, Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe in 2017. I co-host a podcast with my dad about minor league baseball team name etymology. We both love baseball and minor leagues for some reason.
Amy Choi: Okay, I'm going to say that the lie is the deep fryer. Okay, I'm going with the deep fryer.
Arielle Nissenblatt: That's your truth. That it may not be mine.
Amy Choi: We are going to move on. We're going to come back to our truth in a lie. We'll see if anything reveals itself that makes me change my mind. But I'm going to ask you three questions now, and you'll have 60 seconds to answer each of them. After that, we'll pick one of the subjects we covered and we'll get into it a little bit more deeply. Sounds good?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Perfect.
As one of the most passionate listeners I know - why podcasts?
Arielle Nissenblatt: I started out in this industry as a listener first, and I just became quickly obsessed with listening to as much content as I possibly could. And when I look back, I think the reason for that is because growing up, I was not good at sitting all day in a classroom, looking at a board. Everything was so visual. I think that if I had had podcasts or audiobooks or some other sort of audio instruction growing up, I would have been a much more confident learner and I would have been a more confident adult faster. But when I discovered podcasts, when I discovered listening to podcasts in 2014, sort of similar to when you started really listening to podcasts, I learned on last week's episode, I realized that I could consume knowledge, I could consume content, I could meet new people. I could hear stories from people around the world by way of podcasts. And ever since then, I have been on a mission to listen to more podcasts myself, but also to help people find their next favorite shows because it changed my life and I really think it could change more people's lives.
Amy Choi: I love that. Good job on the 60 seconds.
Can you share one moment or experience that encapsulates what the podcast community means to you?
Arielle Nissenblatt: The podcast community is unbelievably collaborative, and that is something that I discovered by way of Twitter, actually. RIP potentially X, whatever. I think what's interesting about that is, you know, when I first started listening to podcasts, I posted on Twitter about it. And what I loved about Twitter is that it has this sort of serendipitous feel to it. If you tweet at somebody or post somebody might see it and they might respond to you. And that can be huge. So I have just loved the ability, the Internet's ability, to connect me with my favorite creators, listeners, people all around the podcast world. And something that really encapsulates this for me is that last October, so around a year ago when Elon Musk really took over Twitter, I shepherded a whole bunch of people who were on “podcast Twitter” over to Discord, and we have been able to cultivate a Twitter like atmosphere on Discord since then. And the podcast community continues to be really, really strong.
Amy Choi: Oh, that's so nice. You know, I tried following you there and then Discord was too hard for me to add another thing into my life.
Arielle Nissenblatt: I totally feel that. So does that mean that you've abandoned podcast social media?
Amy Choi: You know, it's been tough. I just find the Twitter experience so unpleasant now, but it remains the place where, like, I invested ten years of my life, like building my lists and making relationships. And so, I have my blue sky, but like, what's happening over there? I don't know.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Like somebody just messaged me this week and they were like, Hey, I saw you’re on Blue Sky. Are you going to start posting? And I was like, No.
Amy Choi: I know. It's just like there's too much. And then I'm like, maybe I just evaporate from the Internet. But I do miss the community. I miss those conversations that only happen online.
Arielle Nissenblatt: I'm telling you, there's something really beautiful about - and this doesn't happen on Facebook, this doesn't happen on Instagram - the ability to be like, I love this episode of This American Life tag, IRA Glass, and then maybe he likes it and then you freak out for a little bit. Do you know the show Who Weekly? It's an amazing podcast about pop culture and PR and actually like who gets covered and why they get covered. And it's so much more than just like celebrity gossip. It’s the smartest show on air. But I tweeted something that Lindsay Weber said around last week's episode about how Travis Kelsey has a podcast and how that's like a huge boon for the podcast industry because of Taylor Swift, of course. And I tweeted that and they retweeted it. And then my cousin texted me and was like, you just got retweeted by Who Weekly. And I'm like, that is the power of Twitter.
Amy Choi: I love that. Oh, Travis, him and his brother. I hope they’re excited for their new listeners.
What is the hill you'll die on when it comes to your work in the industry?
Arielle Nissenblatt: The hill that I will die on gladly is that social media is not a huge driver of listeners when it comes to marketing your show. And I think a lot of people place a lot of time, place a lot of effort, place a lot of heart and soul into creating the perfect social post that might just drive people to listen to their podcast. And time and time again we find that this is just not the case. And the reason for that is because when you sit down at the end of the day to scroll on your phone, you're sitting on your couch, you're on the toilet, whatever you are most likely not looking for a podcast to listen to, you are more likely just looking to scroll. You are looking to catch some gossip. You are looking to see what your aunt is up to In Oklahoma. You really are not there to listen to a podcast and you're not necessarily going to be in scent. You're not necessarily going to find the perfect tweet or the perfect social post and say, You know what? I'm going to change my behavior right now and go listen to a podcast. So I just want to yeah, that's the hill that I will die on and don't spend too much time on social.
Amy Choi: All right. I love that. I love that our social media managers around around the world are just like Jesus fucking Christ, Arielle.
Arielle Nissenblatt: And this one minute thing is hard because I want to go in more depth. However, if you go on pod chaser and you search my name, you'll see the many shows that I've guested on before. And I definitely have gone in more depth on each of these answers. I just love podcasts for that reason. You know, it really tells you where you've been. And if you don't keep track of it, if you're not the type of person who is like I guessed it here, here, here, here, here. If you go to Podcahser or and search for some for their name, it's like the IMDb podcast.
Amy Choi: Well, I want to go back to this concept of collaboration, because I think, as you know, I still think of podcasting as a very much a baby industry. Right. Like it's approaching ten years of being kind of in the mainstream. And still there are tens of millions of people that have never listened to a podcast, don't know what it is, don't know how to access a player on their phones. They don't understand what a podcast is. They're like, Is it radio on the Internet? What is happening here? And so I think, you know, there's a way in which the industry has been built up enough so that there are major players. There is certainly a lot of consolidation. It's a very, very, very weird time for all of us right now that are in this weather as kind of early stage makers or as big companies that are driving the industry. And I wonder for you, like how you have seen that collaborative element change as the industry has grown? You know, I think the thing that I always think of and I'm a little bit older than you - won't say how much - but, you know, like I came up in the blogging times when everybody was resharing everybody's things. And there was a real kind of blogger community. And then as all of those things get professionalized, it gets more territorial, it gets harder to collaborate. And I wonder if you're seeing that as somebody who watches the collaboration really closely.
Arielle Nissenblatt: I barely find situations where people are protective over their space that they've carved out within the podcast industry. When I do, when I find people who are like, oh, you know, we're not going to collaborate with them, it's a little bit too close of a connection between our two shows. I think those people should be shamed. I think that the only way to grow the podcast industry overall is to get more listeners obsessed with listening to podcasts. And it might not be your podcast right away, but over time it will. It will help you If we get more people obsessed with listening to podcasts in general, they will eventually trickle down to your show. If your show is great, if your show is genuinely bringing people value. So what I found is that people are coming to understand that you need to borrow audiences from each other when it comes to launching a show or even continuing to market a show. I am a really big fan of setting up promo swaps, setting up feed swaps, setting up even more in-depth potential collaboration opportunities, for example. You go and become a “correspondent” on somebody's show to talk about being a mash up American on a show like Code Switch, for example. You know, like that's not necessarily something that would happen, but it would be something that would make sense tonally, right? So I really think the secret sauce here is podcasters need to be aware of other podcasts and other creators in their niche and even a little bit beyond their niche. So think about like, where does the web extend beyond just the first circle of that web? And then figuring out what kind of collaboration is built into their show and what's not built in and where can you fill in. And I think people understand that. And for the people that don't, again, please, please do, you know, like try not to see things as competition, but as collaboration instead. And it might sound simplistic, it might sound naive, but I say let's keep it that way and just continue to at least try to be collaborative first.
Amy Choi: Yeah. It's interesting because I do think that because times are hard and because audience is really hard to come by, it can be challenging to be doing exactly what you said, which is to both lend your audience and borrow the audience and not feel territorial. And at the same time, like we, Rebecca and I at Mash Up and, you know, again, we've known each other and we've worked together. But like we believe so firmly on all boats rising. Yeah. And that, if you like, put great minds together and we try to do good things like good things will happen.
Arielle Nissenblatt: You know, it'll introduce you to the next person who will introduce you to the next person who heard about you. Because you got mentioned on the blog that only a few people subscribe to, but just the right person saw it at the right time. I mean, I just think it is worth it to be doing things out of the goodness of your heart or because you have the actual space to do so in your podcast. And just seeing what happens there. A lot of people will say, okay, but if I you know, if I give a recommendation on my podcast for another podcast as a promo swap, won't they go over to that podcast instead of mine? And the answer is like, maybe if your podcast sucks and they're looking to leave, but also because ultimately people who listen to podcasts tend to listen to more than one podcast, usually between 7 and 8. There was some research that came out a few years ago about this that people who consider themselves podcast listeners listened to a whole bunch of different shows. And how can you become one of those 7 or 8 podcasts?
Amy Choi: Mm hmm.
Arielle Nissenblatt: So I think that's a really big part of it, is really just making sure that your content is up to snuff and you are collaborating with the right people and you're exposing your show or your personality to people who might convert to become fans of you.
Amy Choi: Yeah, you listen to more than 7 or 8 shows. I know you listen to maybe dozens and dozens. How do you listen? Where do you listen? As somebody who makes podcasts, I often get over my ears, get tired, and I need to chill on the ears.
Arielle Nissenblatt: I get that. I listen on Pocket Casts mostly, but I will also dabble in Apple and I will dabble in good pods and I have reasons for doing that. Pocket Casts is just what I'm up to right now. I really like the listening history. I really like how it tallies up how much I've listened to things like that. I also really like their homepage and how things are curated on there for potential discovery. Apple I like to check every Monday when new and noteworthy revamps itself. I like to see who's being featured not just on New and Noteworthy, but also on all the other categories. I like to see who's trending all that and Good Pods I like because it's just a really cool way to see what your friends are listening to. And yeah, I also really like some of their promotional features. Like you can create lists within Good Pods. You can request to be featured - a number of different things that you can do there. Oh, and you can do a creator Q&A so you can read what your favorite creators are up to or you know, the thought process behind their podcast. So I use a bunch of different apps to listen to podcasts. I wake up, I listen to podcasts, I usually listen to a few morning shows every day. I listen to the daily podcast, which you've been a guest on.
Amy Choi: Yes I love those guys!
Arielle Nissenblatt: They're the best. I listen every single day, twice a day because they have a morning show and an afternoon show. It's too much, but it's so good. And it's an example of a thriving podcast community. They built such a great community around their show, people who just love this show. I also listen to Up First every day for my news. I listen to Today, Explained every afternoon, and then I have my weekly drops that I'll listen to every single week. And then I'm usually always listening to some sort of investigative series or something that is serialized. And Wednesday lately has been my absolute favorite day for podcast listening. Can I read for you what dropped just two days ago? Every single Wednesday I think about tweeting something along the lines of I've said it before and I'll say it again Wednesday is absolutely the best day for me. Listening to podcasts people, and this is separate from what is the perfect day to drop your podcast. That's not what I mean. I mean Wednesday all my favorite podcasts drop - and they are: Vibe Check Sam Sanders. We've got I See Why Am I from Slate, we've got This is Love, we've got Los Culturistas. We've got Crime Writers On. I could go on all day. Oh, oh. Another one is Behind Plain Sight. Truly Wednesday is incredible.
Two truths and a lie
Amy Choi: Well, I know what you're doing on Wednesdays now. Everybody knows what Arielle's doing on Wednesdays. Okay, so we are at the part of the show where we are going to be finding out if I was right there. There we go. Was I right? Do you have a deep fryer? What was the last one?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Okay. Would you like the truth?
Amy Choi: Yes.
Arielle Nissenblatt: When I was nine years old, I every single day had potatoes for breakfast, a different type of potato. So it would either be French fries or hash browns or a Knish. And yes, I got a deep fryer for my ninth birthday. It was awesome. It burnt a hole in the ceiling eventually, though, so we did have to get rid of it probably before my 10th birthday. I did train as a welder -
Amy Choi: Knew it!
Arielle Nissenblatt: - In 2017, I was listening to a podcast that was recommended on my newsletter, and it was about how women are underrepresented in welding. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to make this my goal for the end of 2017 and I'm going to at least take a welding class. And I was living in L.A. at the time, and I walked by Venice Metalworks, and I just walked in and I said, Hi. Any chance I can be an apprentice? And they said, yes. And then I worked with them for like four months and I welded a lamp.
Amy Choi: I love it.
Arielle Nissenblatt: I do not, but I have strong aspirations to co-host a podcast about minor league baseball team name etymology - the baby cakes, the Montgomery Biscuits. We've got the Hudson Valley Renegades. I could go on all day there.
Amy Choi: We could align on my other passion, which is naming lipsticks and nail polishes.
Arielle Nissenblatt: All of the naming is a great concept for a show. How do things get their names right? So for me, the minor league baseball team name etymology podcast, and that would be the name of it! Just kidding. We would come up with something better. It's all about love of place. It's about maybe interviewing the mayor. It's about maybe interviewing a player. It's about interviewing a fan. It's about interviewing somebody who goes to every single game, even though it's cold out or even though the team has lost every single season for the last 50 years. I just think it could be great.
Amy Choi: Love that. You know what? I'm going to give myself a little credit because I knew that it was in your heart, even if it wasn't quite true yet.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, it's very close to true.
Amy Choi: It felt very close to the truth, an approximation of truth. I can take that as a win. All right, Arielle, thank you so much for sharing your insight and being a part of Podcast 360. Arielle, can you let our listeners know where they can find you in the meantime
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yes, I am still active on Twitter/X. You can find me @arithisandthat. I am also active on Instagram, @ariellethisandthat. And if you go to my website https://www.ariellenissenblatt.com you'll find everything that I do. And if you want to see me teaching Descript, I do that pretty often. If you go to the Descript YouTube Channel, we do a lot of live events and then we also post those as replays. So you can check out how to use Descript, which is a really great all in one editing tool. Had to get that plug in.
Amy Choi: Thank you and thanks to the Podcast 360 team for having me. You can find me @AmyChoi on all of the socials for some period of time until I, you know, disappear from the Internet. And you can follow the Mash-Up, Americans, wherever you get your podcasts.
Executive Producers: Brittany Temple and Adell Coleman
Editor: Brittany Temple
Host: Amanda B. Nazareno
Brought to you by DCP and The Podcast Academy
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