Practice Not Perfect
Diversifying Your Guest List for Thoughtful and Inclusive Conversations
Authors: Kristin Quiroz Bayona, Carolyn Kiel, and Charlie Ocean, MSW
We hope you'll join our "Practice Not Perfect: Diversifying Your Guest List for Thoughtful and Inclusive Conversations" session today at 12pm ET/9am PT. Register here!
Below are three critical sections for those seeking inspiration to improve their podcasts featuring guests. We'll discuss normalizing mistakes (which will happen!), auditing your podcast for gaps in guests and how to find them, offering accommodations, and ways to create a more comfortable environment and conversation for guests of various backgrounds and experiences.
Whether you've already got a podcast featuring guests or are just starting, we hope the following tips are helpful. While you read on, we hope you'll consider one change you'll commit to moving forward.
Making Mistakes Is OK
Making everyone feel seen and heard should be at the heart of inclusive podcasting practices. However, reaching out to people different from us can feel intimidating, and we may be anxious about doing it "wrong." Adopting a "practice, not perfect" mindset is essential to normalize making mistakes and commit to learning.
Accept that it may initially feel uncomfortable, just like when you started podcasting. Think about where you'd be if you didn't push through that discomfort. The anxiety might not disappear, but thoughtful preparation helps.
Auditing and Finding Guests
Rather than checking boxes, meaningful representation should be the focus. Look closely at your current guest lineup and identify any underrepresented communities. You could survey listeners about what guests they'd like to hear from and check reviews for any feedback.
Set intentional goals rather than arbitrary quotas for which voices to amplify. If your podcast skews towards a specific demographic, be purposeful about inviting others. This clarity will help you pinpoint where you need to focus your efforts. If you work on a tech or STEM podcast, it may lean more white and male, so you'll need to be intentional. Seek out organizations like oSTEM and Hacking the Workforce. Remember that representation isn't always visible or known, such as those with invisible disabilities.
When researching potential guests, use accurate, respectful terminology from trustworthy sources like relevant organizations, online communities, and influencers. How do those sources talk about the community? Even with your research, your guests may have preferred terms and definitions. Listen to other podcast episodes that may have those guests on and see what, if anything, is different about their conversations. These steps help you better understand how to discuss various communities appropriately.
Outside of podcast guest directories and email newsletter shoutouts, here are a few more ways to find potential guests:
Social Media: Looking for woman-owned businesses? Use hashtags like #LatinaEntrepreneurs and follow relevant accounts on social media platforms like Instagram (e.g., @thefearlessmujerpodcast, @latinaentrepreneurs). Engage with their content and explore their connections to find potential guests and new hashtags.
Networks/Groups: Seek out podcast groups like BIPOC Podcast Creators. You could search LinkedIn groups for specific demographics, like "Black entrepreneur community." Select "people" and follow and connect to grow your network. Who do they follow or interact with? Please note that some of these groups may be closed to outsiders who are not part of that demographic. In those cases, you could ask the admins for any recommendations. Even groups or associations unrelated to podcasting, like Disability:IN, could make a great resource.
Relationships/Introductions: Leverage your existing relationships and connections. Once you meet someone from your target demographic, such as a previous guest who you believe had a positive experience, be open about your goals and ask for introductions to expand your community further. Building genuine relationships is vital to expanding your network.
Now that we've discussed auditing your podcast for guest goals, let's cover accommodations and explain why they aren't just for neurodivergent and disabled people.
Accommodations for Inclusive Podcast Interviews
When inviting future podcast guests, part of creating an inclusive or expansive environment for your guests is ensuring the experience is accessible. Accessibility is the process of making information, activities, and spaces usable by as many people as possible. One way to achieve this is to think through your logistics and offer accommodations, which are changes that make things more accessible. While accommodations have historically been created primarily to support disabled folks, anyone can benefit. Here are some common examples you may have used: eyeglasses, stairs, elevators, subtitles, spell-check / auto-correct, curb-cuts, or even remote work options. Providing accommodations can help your guests feel supported and at ease throughout the interview experience. Then, the burden isn't on them to proactively ask for accommodations or to struggle through the interview because they were reluctant to ask.
Since needs vary and you want to avoid assumptions, you may not know which accommodations could help each guest. Consider asking, "Is there anything I can do to make the interview more comfortable for you?" Based on their answer, you can provide the accommodations that will support their needs. Below are some accommodations you could offer.
Before Interviews (Virtual or In-Person):
Ask for their pronouns and the correct pronunciation of their name
Ask what language they use to describe their identity, background, or life experiences (e.g., identity-first vs person-first language, specific terminology)
Provide an overview of what to expect (e.g., rundown of interview flow, when you'll follow up, etc.)
Send interview questions or topics in advance; ask if they'd like to add or avoid any topics
Discuss any boundaries on topics or timing (e.g., if discussing trauma)
Make arrangements for interpreters or communication aids/devices, if needed (example: Pro Bono ASL)
Let guests know they can skip questions if needed
Clarify needs around legal agreements, release forms, etc.
Ask if they need to approve the final edits to the episode before publication
Ask them to silence notifications and alarms during the recording
Remind them that they can have a drink nearby for hydration and take breaks if needed during the interview
Schedule extra time for tech checks
Request any materials they'd like you to review beforehand (or any materials you need to prepare for the interview)
Before Virtual Interviews:
Enable live captioning in your online recording platform (e.g., here's how to do this in Zoom). Captioning is especially helpful for neurodivergent, Deaf/deaf, or hard of hearing guests
Ask if they prefer video on or off
Get their consent if you plan to stream the interview to a live audience
Before In-Person Interviews:
Communicate interview location details and directions in writing
Confirm accessibility of the physical location (e.g., travel options, parking, building access)
Consider safety precautions for immunocompromised guests
Remind them if there's anything they need to bring (e.g., identification, recording equipment, water/beverage)
Notify them of any last-minute logistical changes promptly
Prepare for impacts like inclement weather or major events
During the Interview:
Use compassionate curiosity rather than assumptions when discussing sensitive topics
Avoid insensitive language (e.g., outdated/offensive terminology, deficit-based framing of disabilities) - instead, use the language/terminology you discussed with them before the interview
Mistakes happen! Avoid reacting defensively if your guest corrects you; be open to the correction
Accommodate needs around mobility aids, communication devices, and any other accommodations you agreed on with your guest before the interview
Remind guests that they can skip questions, take breaks, or postpone
Providing accommodations proactively removes potential barriers for your future guests. While these are non-exhaustive lists, we hope they have given you some new ways of thinking about improving the guest experience on your show.
Let's talk about the conversations and how we can gracefully navigate potentially challenging situations.
Conducting Thoughtful Interviews
We can't become subject matter experts overnight, and that's not the expectation. Incorrect language or outdated information may occasionally slip out. Guests will likely expect that you have done some initial research and may extend some grace for slip-ups, especially if they can tell you are sincere and are otherwise on the right track.
Let's say you use an outdated term or language meant for in-community only. When you make a mistake, and a guest or someone else corrects you, you could say, "Thank you for correcting me." Then, rephrase and continue going. Thanking someone acknowledges that we're all learners and that feedback is a gift. If you catch yourself first, even better, and the same applies: rephrase and keep going. Leaving in these corrections can bring another level of authenticity to your show and help listeners learn along with you.
If you're genuinely curious about the correction and believe that you and your listeners may benefit from learning more, especially if it's not something you heard about in your research, you could ask them for clarification after thanking them. It could sound something like, "Thank you for correcting me. I'm curious; my understanding was 'XYZ.' Would you be willing to share more about why that's not true?" You could also ask for alternative phrasing if you need clarification on what that would be if they didn't include it in their correction. If your guest says no, respect it and move on to your next question.
Don't assume guests want to discuss sensitive identity topics. For example, people within LGBTQ+ communities don't always want to make everything about their LGBTQ+ status, as they're more than that. Additionally, asking them to participate only during times like Pride Month (which can vary worldwide) or other awareness events may appear performative. Since people aren't required to "be out" and don't owe anyone their disclosure, it's also possible that folks may want to be interviewed anonymously to protect their identity. This may also be true of other guests, depending on how vulnerable they decide to be with you about sensitive and personal topics.
Suppose you're considering writing questions about sensitive or potentially charged topics overall. It can be helpful first to ask, "Are there any topics off-limits for you?" It is also good practice to share any questions with the guest via email or quick call. You could ask, "Is it OK to ask you about XYZ?"
Depending on your rapport and how potential guests interpret your motives, they may feel uncomfortable addressing those topics. Even if they agreed to it beforehand, folks can revoke consent anytime. Sometimes, folks will tell you they're an open book with no topics off-limits. Having additional backup questions is helpful to avoid getting stuck in the conversation.
What's absolutely not OK is asking someone insensitive questions for shock value or not telling them about another guest who will be there to "present both sides" of a particular issue or cause. These kinds of actions are misleading and harmful. Furthermore, damaging your reputation this way could hurt your chances of having similar guests on your show. Conversations with People Who Hate Me with Dylan Marron is a podcast that is intentional about setting up difficult conversations with guests and can serve as a possible model for setting up these conversations ethically.
Continuous Commitment
We've covered many ways you could improve the inclusivity of your show. As you interview more diverse guests, you'll learn additional ways to create a welcoming space.
Consider one small change you can commit to based on our guidance. Diversifying your guest list is an ongoing process, not a one-time checklist. Practice patience, stay committed to your goals, and keep evolving your approach. Even though we’ve shared some current practices, they will keep changing as we learn alongside communities.
Practice, not perfect. What's one change you'll make?
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Kristin Quiroz Bayona is the Head of Podcast Strategy & Partner Success at PFN, founder of Podcast & Amplify and a podcast host. She’s on a mission to amplify underrepresented communities (BIPOC, LGBTQ+, Neurodivergent, and Disabled) and help female entrepreneurs grow purposeful and profitable podcasts. She has a combined 20 years of experience in marketing, communications, and podcasting and holds a BA in Literature from the University of California, Santa Cruz. You can find Kristin on Instagram and on her website at https://www.podcastandamplify.com.
Carolyn Kiel hosts the multi-award-winning podcast, Beyond 6 Seconds. Her podcast features neurodivergent and disabled entrepreneurs, creatives, and advocates who share their candid life experiences in their own words. Carolyn has a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology and a Master of Arts in Industrial/Organizational Psychology. When she's not podcasting, she can be found working as an instructional designer or singing a cappella music. You can find Carolyn on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. You can also find her at her website at www.beyond6seconds.net.
Charlie Ocean, MSW (they/them), hosts the 4x award-nominated and now award-winning Allyship is a Verb podcast. They’re also an award-winning LGBTQ+ trainer, speaker, and consultant providing services as founder of Gender Sexuality Info, LLC. You can find Charlie on Instagram, LinkedIn and on their website at https://hicharlieocean.com.